“Presently, in terms of language learning, at the kindergarten level, there are only two choices: English and French,” said Eileen Sue, a member of B.C. Parents for Mandarin.
“We do feel that children learn languages best before the age of nine. They are language sponges.”
Learning Mandarin will give children an edge, helping them better compete with European students who regularly learn English on top of their native languages in school, she said.”
Em, European kids don’t learn Mandarin or Cantonese. They learn ENGLISH and their native language. WE – supposedly a BI-lingual nation, SHOULD be learning FRENCH and English- but due to the half-assed way THAT set up in NON FRENCH provinces, has been a dogs breakfast unless you camp out overnight to get your kid in French Immersion.
This is from a Vancouver Sun article, where some Vancouver parents want Manadarin taught in school.
Now don’t get me wrong. I am all for children learning a second language. I wish bilingualism was REAL and that we all spoke French and English. It isn’t. Not here in the west anyway.
But frankly, the only reason I can see learning Manadarin or Cantonese here is to help the already Mandarin and Cantonese speaking people have an easier time NOT learning English.
A Manadarin or Cantonese speaking person can do amazingly well without ANY English in the Lower Mainland.
And even ESL is rarely taken seriously by parents for their kids. Again, because they don’t HAVE to learn English. They rarely try to speak with other parents or kids and so really, where is the multiculturalism? My kids are not making friends with these kids and neither are the parents because of the language barriers, and now it is up to ME and my child to fix this?
Lets not forget the myriad of OTHER cultures that make up Vancouver. My son’s class has a huge population from Latin America. Why are we not focusing on Spanish?
This is multiculturalism in Vancouver.
So yes, brand me a racist. Go ahead. I am sure some people will.
On top of this, our school was part of THIS debacle. However, we were given far less information by our school than these parents recieved. THAT pisses me off.
My son’s little class has been split up between kindergarten and grade two. HE went over to the kindergarten class, back to a teach we don’t like and who was NOT a great confidence builder for my son.
Saying I am not happy is an understatement.
One of the other parents was fuming too. Basically her daughter and my son were put there with mostly what was the full time (ESL) kindergartners last year.
So what was wrong with our kids?
The other mom is devastated that her daughter is being separated from her friends.
Adam is buddies with a lot of kids so that doesn’t seem to bother him so much…but being back with THAT teacher does not impress me. She was not good at building his confidence. He had blossomed in the last 3 weeks with his new teachers.
I do have to stop fuming and just see how he does. If he isn’t happy, we will explore other schools. And in the meantime, pray that we can just find an affordable house somether far far away and go and start fresh.
Seriously….THIS is parenting. Having a baby is not parenting. Watching them grow and trying to make their life the best you can…THAT is parenting. That is what adds the gray hairs.
PunditMom says
Um, I love you, but as the mom of a daughter adopted from China, and looking at what China is going to be economically in a couple of decades, I think it makes TONS of sense to teach Chinese. But there should be a bigger focus on Spanish, as well.
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Laura says
I can understand that learning Chinese languages could actually be a great lifelong skill to have. Not just for living in Vancouver, but as a business skill in an increasingly global business environment in the future. So I don’t think it’s worthless to your child and beneficial only to Chinese immigrants who live here.
HOWEVER. I see your point too, because this is a bilingual nation where the two national languages are French and English. I think that taking classes in both French and English in our schools should be mandatory, and taking a third language should be optional. And maybe Mandarin and Cantonese and Spanish should all be third language options. Learning to speak the two national languages should be part of our culture. So on that front, I agree with you.
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Stephanie says
I’m pretty sure this has nothing to do with making it easier for kids speaking Mandarin to not learn English. As PunditMom said, with the way China is growing economically, these are going to be the next big languages.
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TheMacMommy says
I agree with you in that we have the same problem here except it’s Spanish that seems to be forced on the kids. We live very close to the border so with all the legal *and* illegal immigrants coming in and our state being fined regularly for non-compliance in ELL it is really bringing our whole state DOWN, down, down. It’s very sad. I feel the same way that by forcing the kids to learn Spanish, it’s enabling the Spanish kids to not learn English. This is going to sound rude, but I have seem many examples of the culture where they downright refuse to comply and teach their kids English because they feel entitled. It’s sad and we should be able to choose what other language they learn instead of being forced. When I went to school, we had a choice between French, Spanish and German.
Now, that being said, if we had more choices today, I think learning Mandarin or Chinese WOULD be a good choice for the reasons others have already stated. I just feel right now it would be a step in the right direction. I’d rather my son be able to communicate on a global level because it would give him an edge in his employment in the future. Limiting him to only learning Spanish will promote him where, exactly? I just don’t think he’d get as far learning Spanish over an Asian language when Spanish is so abundant here already. I think he could learn Spanish easier on his own from his friends and our friends, but Asian languages seem to be much tougher to master so it seems to me more appropriate to be taught in a school setting. Plus, Asian languages are just simply beautiful! I took French in high school and it too is a beautiful language to speak and hear.
I know, and I sympathize with where you’re coming from. It’s a tough one and it’s hard to not come off as sounding racist or biased. I think we all just want what’s best for our kids and that’s the bottom line. It doesn’t make us bad people. You’re the best parent for your child and that’s all that matters in the end. Smile 🙂 Thanks for sharing and venting 🙂
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Kulpreet Singh says
I feel whatever the official languages of a country, children should be required to learn them and have a good GPA in those languages before being allowed to learn a third language.
For example, in Canada, children should have a minimum B or 75% grade in English and French before being allowed to learn Punjabi, Mandarin, Spanish, etc.
Learning French and English and being fluent in both would give Canadian children the opportunity to represent their country and also have the credentials to work in public / government jobs which require bilingualism.
However, I have to say that teaching Mandarin and other languages with the highest number of speakers worldwide, makes complete sense. It is better for the children in the long run because they will be competitive in a global economy whether they decide to work with the public, or have a job that requires travel to Asia, or have a global business, or work in a global management environment. In fact, every young person from every country in the world should be learning Mandarin, Hindi and Spanish because they have more native speakers globally than English. (according to Wikipedia)
thordora says
Frankly, after growing up in eastern and southern Ontario and now living in the one “bilingual” province, I think the focus should be on english first, period. And I agree that Mandarin and Cantonese would better serve those generations who will be trading and interacting with Asian countries in the next 30 years-who do we trade with that is french? Even the people in this province don’t speak the french I slept through in grade school.
We maintain french as a nod to the past, trying to prop up some sort of culture that isn’t necessarily relevant to gaining ground intellectually. Is french relevant in the global market place? No, it’s not. Spanish and Asian languages would make much more sense.
But then, I get upset with the arguing over french immersion here when the literacy rates and test scores for english are so terrible I feel sick sending my kid to school if I think about it (up to 45% of adults reading at below acceptable levels, which I would assume means functionally illiterate)
And am I safe to assume that you misspelled intolerant on purpose? 😛
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Language Bitch says
Schools should teach the two official languages and a third that makes cultural and economic sense. Kids learn languages easily when they begin very young (by the middle grades it’s already too late, though immersion helps); North American Waldorf schools typically teach 2 languages in addition to English.
I’d have been thrilled if I had had the opportunity to learn 3 languages as a kid. Being exposed to multiple languages builds neural pathways that make it easier for kids to learn other things than languages. In other words, multi-language exposure is a lifelong positive enhancement.
btw, it’s “privilege.” Unless that’s intentional? A play on words?
mo-wo says
You are so right about the ‘this is parenting’ — I am getting that.
And, I was so very very very very sorry to hear about the class shuffle last week. The final arrangements are truly stinky. I’d curse here if I could.
It is not acceptable. And, it sucks even more that you guys were ill informed.
I am sorry about all that mess.
ps… I’ve made some changes in my own thinking about ESL. Hell the world is freakin’ ESL, I’m gonna raise the kids with a very ‘we gotta deal with it’ new paradigm.
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Kat says
I agree with MacMommy- it is very frustrating in the States too. We share the same sorce of grey hair! I am amazed at the amount of parents that send children to my school with NO exposure to English. Crazy!
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Barbara Doduk says
My very good friend has 2 sons, and they live in an area of the city where the majority of the school the boys attend is ESL. She often ponders to me, wondering how much of her son’s educations are wasted on ESL. They do not need ESL teaching methods, but they happen to live in an area where the school has to function as such. Is it fair to the boys?
I agree that there are too many people here that refuse to integrate into the English speaking society. Our so-called mosaic of multiculturalism is more about isolation of cultures. Communities etch out territories of the lower mainland and they choose to stick to “their own”.
Is it any wonder we have so many problems with educating the children when the adults can’t even adapt to this country?
Bottom line is though, our education system is very lacking as is. I suspect the reduction of the teaching staff has to do with the required quotas school must meet. The school probably does not have the funding to keep the grade 1 teacher and is forced to break up the class that way. I am sure the school hates having to do such things, but that isn’t the school’s fault, that is the Boards of Education’s rules.
I don’t think that as a parent you are being intolerant, you are actually worried about your child’s education, and about making the right choices for your children, so that they will have a good future.
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Scattered Mom says
I think I can comment on this post with a unique perspective. Not only did I work for years as a special ed paraprofessional in Richmond, BC in the 90’s (when there was a HUGE influx of Asian immigrants) but I am the mom of a child with special needs.
As a para, I was witness to the struggle of teachers trying to teach a class of kids, 2/3 of whom didn’t speak English well enough to understand the curriculum. This sort of situation is a detrimental to everyone-the English speaking kids who deserve the best possible education, not a watered down version, and the the ESL kids, who can’t understand what’s going on; as well as the teacher, who literally can’t do their job with such a range of students.
Secondly, as a mother…my child is Canadian born and speaks English, and I resent educational dollars being used to fund help for ESL kids when special needs children like my own are being given the short end of the stick. Jake, and kids like him, have a RIGHT to an appropriate education for reasons that they cannot help. Many learning disabled children are average to above average intelligence, even gifted and they typically get the least amount of funding in schools. With therapy and help for these kids, many could be successful but instead they become frustrated and drop out.
One can always learn English. My son will NEVER be rid of his disability-and yet you have scores of ESL programs while parents of special needs kids are fighting for aides for the kids, funding, and IEPs.
I honestly believe that there should be limits on the number of ESL children placed in a classroom, and that they should be required to reach a specific level of English before being placed there. The focus should be on our national languages, English specifically because that is the language that EVERYTHING is taught in.
If parents believe their kids can handle a third language, they have every right to enroll them in after school classes. A third language at a young age is, in my opinion, supplemental and not the responsibility of the Canadian school system to teach.
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SmalltownRN says
Ok here are my thoughts on this. I have a sister who taught in the Richmond school district for 35 years. ESL was huge….millions upon millions of dollars are spent working with ESL students trying to help them intergrate into the system and learn the English language. What would happen at recess and lunch the children would go out into the play ground and only associate with children who spoke their language. English was never reinforced at home as mom, dad and often the grandparents did not speak English or had a poor command of the language. As a teacher my sister expressed the frustration of trying to teach these children English who weren’t really interested in learning the language and then have children who English is a first language but struggling with the reading and writing. It didn’t make sense to her and it certainly doesn’t make sense to me.
I also have a sister in law who teachers in Richmond, french immersion. See has seen the struggles in the shcool system with this as well.
Personally, I think anyone who comes to an English speaking country and wants to intergrate into the system must out of their own pocket pay to learn the basics of the English language…once they have an understanding of the language then they can participate in public school. Education dollars are very sparse….I find it a shame that they are being spent on programs where they are not being used to their full potential. I would rather see the dollars go into more teachers helping our children read and write and have smaller class sizes so there could be more personal attention.
In high school students have the option to take languages…if they want to learn Madarin or any other language then they can opt to take it as an elective. But to say that the system MUST teach Mandarin in elementary is wrong. Canada is a bilingual country French and English those are our National languages….remember…when in Rome
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claudia says
I don’t get how there is no money for teachers based on declining enrollment (my kids school has FOUR teachers, all with split classes) yet they may think about implementing this program.
Mostly already Mandarin speaking families would sign their kinders up I’m thinking.
I just think Vancouver’s Public Schools are too mired in other issues. Let this call for this program rest, school board, and worry about putting money toward the kids that really need it.
Don’t forget people, there are lots of kids who can’t read at their grade level, or perform basic math skills who are falling through the cracks in this city.
Add this program? AFTER the school board takes care of these kids!!!!
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claudia says
ok, that should read “Let this call for this program rest, PEOPLE (not school board) and make the school board worry about putting money toward the kids that really need it.” Including ESL kids.
I clicked undue and messed it up without realizing, typical Claudia goofup.
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Karen Sugarpants says
I’m in Ontario and my kids are in French Immersion. I truly believe that if parents want their kids to learn ANY third language, they can pay for private lessons. Our schools are already on tight budgets. My community has a high percentage of Portuguese people here – does that mean our regional schools should add Portuguese? Um, NO.
I’m sick of parents putting so much more responsibility on schools than necessary: sex ed, HPV, drugs, job searching, BREAKFAST…hey people, if you want the school to just raise your kids 100% maybe you shouldn’t have had any.
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